❞ كتاب  Structural Design of Gunite Swimming Pools - Civil  ❝

❞ كتاب Structural Design of Gunite Swimming Pools - Civil ❝


Structural Design of Gunite Swimming Pools - Civil
I have an enquiry regarding the structural design of swimming pool.

What I usually found on the internet and some Architect's drawings, they design the swimming pool using flat slab and retaining wall. Am I correct? Will it be recommended to design the swimming pool as beam-and-slab instead? This will take account the trench for the M&E pipe which will run across the swimming pool floor.

a trainee who wants to learn and learn
What ever you do make provision for it to float like a boat. Check valves to reieve pressure from water outside can get stuck shut.
You can do the flat slab and retaining wall procedure but check the outward horizontal bending at the vertical corners as well. We had a brand new reservoir fail during initial filling in San Diego because of this. That design engineer is gone now.
Yea there is a design example for corner stresses in a retaining concrete structure somewhere. The pressure from the soil pushes the wall inward creating a moment on the corners. Not really sure how you prevent the concrete from cracking there other than making sure it's thick enough then, having enough reinforcement. I remember having corner bars long enough to develop the structural bond with the steel cage. Then making sure the are placed correctly and can withstand enough tension for the moment.
Quote (BUGGAR)
We had a brand new reservoir fail during initial filling in San Diego because of this.

Jeez. If you're in the mood for sharing, I'd love to hear about the repair.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
Tank design is a lot more than a flat slab and a retaining wall. The ACI has an entire manual devoted to it.
It is a high liability design topic.....a structural material that cracks in order to perform, being water tight.
The biggest challenge in my personal experience is the amount of quality control you need to supervise the concrete crew
doing the job. Any mistakes and both of you are hung out to dry.
There are lots of types of swimming pools. In ground, above ground but ground supported, or elevated? Free form or rectangular? Type of surface? A bit more detail from the OP would help to narrow the answers.
BUGGAR (Structural)4 Jan 16 21:56
KootK, no repair was possible; it required complete replacement (with reinforced corners). This happened to the company where I used to work and the company has since been sold and renamed. Interestingly, the company later successfully designed and built the Bayview Reservoir in La Jolla. My boss had me check, check and re check horizontal loads in the corners. That was a good job with pour strips for shrinkage, shrinkage limits on the concrete, special form vibrators, etc. We used grade 75 rebar throughout (except for the Tijuana bars) with seismic detailing like a hospital. That reservoir was successful. If you have a drink in La Jolla, the water in your ice cube came from our reservoir.

So when I design the swimming pool wall, I need to take extra precaution at the horizontal loading at the corner and make sure the reinforcement is enough to tackle that. Noted.

Have you all ever encounter swimming pool design for the floor where they use beam and slab system? Yes, the swimming pool will be in the ground (lower ground of the building)

Thanks.
a novice in engineering who wants to learn and learn
What are the beams for? Generally, a uniform depth slab is used, similar in thickness to the walls.
Is your pool cast with forms or will it be sprayed concrete? I have generally found corner reinforcement requirements are equal to the horizontal reinforcement (it is a residential swimming pool right?) and you are not designing a reservoir or a water tight cellar. I have not seen any beams under your pool's floors unless the pool is founded on some pretty deep fill. The side walls of the pool will also be stiffer then any piratical beam you can provide.
Are those "beams" to encase an underdrain or pool drain system? We had elaborate underdrains in our reservoir so we could pinpoint exact locations of leaks.

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Structural Design of Gunite Swimming Pools - Civil


Structural Design of Gunite Swimming Pools - Civil
I have an enquiry regarding the structural design of swimming pool.

What I usually found on the internet and some Architect's drawings, they design the swimming pool using flat slab and retaining wall. Am I correct? Will it be recommended to design the swimming pool as beam-and-slab instead? This will take account the trench for the M&E pipe which will run across the swimming pool floor.

a trainee who wants to learn and learn
What ever you do make provision for it to float like a boat. Check valves to reieve pressure from water outside can get stuck shut.
You can do the flat slab and retaining wall procedure but check the outward horizontal bending at the vertical corners as well. We had a brand new reservoir fail during initial filling in San Diego because of this. That design engineer is gone now.
Yea there is a design example for corner stresses in a retaining concrete structure somewhere. The pressure from the soil pushes the wall inward creating a moment on the corners. Not really sure how you prevent the concrete from cracking there other than making sure it's thick enough then, having enough reinforcement. I remember having corner bars long enough to develop the structural bond with the steel cage. Then making sure the are placed correctly and can withstand enough tension for the moment.
Quote (BUGGAR)
We had a brand new reservoir fail during initial filling in San Diego because of this.

Jeez. If you're in the mood for sharing, I'd love to hear about the repair.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
Tank design is a lot more than a flat slab and a retaining wall. The ACI has an entire manual devoted to it.
It is a high liability design topic.....a structural material that cracks in order to perform, being water tight.
The biggest challenge in my personal experience is the amount of quality control you need to supervise the concrete crew
doing the job. Any mistakes and both of you are hung out to dry.
There are lots of types of swimming pools. In ground, above ground but ground supported, or elevated? Free form or rectangular? Type of surface? A bit more detail from the OP would help to narrow the answers.
BUGGAR (Structural)4 Jan 16 21:56
KootK, no repair was possible; it required complete replacement (with reinforced corners). This happened to the company where I used to work and the company has since been sold and renamed. Interestingly, the company later successfully designed and built the Bayview Reservoir in La Jolla. My boss had me check, check and re check horizontal loads in the corners. That was a good job with pour strips for shrinkage, shrinkage limits on the concrete, special form vibrators, etc. We used grade 75 rebar throughout (except for the Tijuana bars) with seismic detailing like a hospital. That reservoir was successful. If you have a drink in La Jolla, the water in your ice cube came from our reservoir.

So when I design the swimming pool wall, I need to take extra precaution at the horizontal loading at the corner and make sure the reinforcement is enough to tackle that. Noted.

Have you all ever encounter swimming pool design for the floor where they use beam and slab system? Yes, the swimming pool will be in the ground (lower ground of the building)

Thanks.
a novice in engineering who wants to learn and learn
What are the beams for? Generally, a uniform depth slab is used, similar in thickness to the walls.
Is your pool cast with forms or will it be sprayed concrete? I have generally found corner reinforcement requirements are equal to the horizontal reinforcement (it is a residential swimming pool right?) and you are not designing a reservoir or a water tight cellar. I have not seen any beams under your pool's floors unless the pool is founded on some pretty deep fill. The side walls of the pool will also be stiffer then any piratical beam you can provide.
Are those "beams" to encase an underdrain or pool drain system? We had elaborate underdrains in our reservoir so we could pinpoint exact locations of leaks.

Reply To This Thread
Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.
Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!



Resources
eBook: 5 Virtual Reality Applications in Manufacturing

Virtual reality (VR) has been around longer than you might think—more than half a century—but it’s only in the last few years that we’ve seen companies and researchers explore its practical applications for manufacturing.
Download Now
Case Study : Vision-Guided Collaborative Robots Deliver Fast ROI in Manufacturing

Indiana-based Task Force Tips, a manufacturer of firefighting equipment, needed to improve manufacturing productivity in the company’s CNC machining cells.
Download Now
White Paper: Four Considerations When Working with Sheet Metal

The use of sheet metal in manufacturing is well established, but the process to produce them can be quite complex. However, new tools can make the process easier.
Download Now
White Paper: Speed design time and streamline manufacturing with Solid Edge Sheet metal

Designing sheet metal parts can be a complex process. Though an end product is designed fully formed and assembled, sheet metal parts actually begin as flat plates.

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موسوعة حمامات السباحة


I have an enquiry regarding the structural design of swimming pool.

What I usually found on the internet and some Architect's drawings, they design the swimming pool using flat slab and retaining wall. Am I correct? Will it be recommended to design the swimming pool as beam-and-slab instead? This will take account the trench for the M&E pipe which will run across the swimming pool floor.

a trainee who wants to learn and learn
What ever you do make provision for it to float like a boat. Check valves to reieve pressure from water outside can get stuck shut.
You can do the flat slab and retaining wall procedure but check the outward horizontal bending at the vertical corners as well. We had a brand new reservoir fail during initial filling in San Diego because of this. That design engineer is gone now.
Yea there is a design example for corner stresses in a retaining concrete structure somewhere. The pressure from the soil pushes the wall inward creating a moment on the corners. Not really sure how you prevent the concrete from cracking there other than making sure it's thick enough then, having enough reinforcement. I remember having corner bars long enough to develop the structural bond with the steel cage. Then making sure the are placed correctly and can withstand enough tension for the moment.
Quote (BUGGAR)
We had a brand new reservoir fail during initial filling in San Diego because of this.

Jeez. If you're in the mood for sharing, I'd love to hear about the repair.
I like to debate structural engineering theory -- a lot. If I challenge you on something, know that I'm doing so because I respect your opinion enough to either change it or adopt it.
Tank design is a lot more than a flat slab and a retaining wall. The ACI has an entire manual devoted to it.
It is a high liability design topic.....a structural material that cracks in order to perform, being water tight.
The biggest challenge in my personal experience is the amount of quality control you need to supervise the concrete crew
doing the job. Any mistakes and both of you are hung out to dry. 
There are lots of types of swimming pools. In ground, above ground but ground supported, or elevated? Free form or rectangular? Type of surface? A bit more detail from the OP would help to narrow the answers.
BUGGAR (Structural)4 Jan 16 21:56
KootK, no repair was possible; it required complete replacement (with reinforced corners). This happened to the company where I used to work and the company has since been sold and renamed. Interestingly, the company later successfully designed and built the Bayview Reservoir in La Jolla. My boss had me check, check and re check horizontal loads in the corners. That was a good job with pour strips for shrinkage, shrinkage limits on the concrete, special form vibrators, etc. We used grade 75 rebar throughout (except for the Tijuana bars) with seismic detailing like a hospital. That reservoir was successful. If you have a drink in La Jolla, the water in your ice cube came from our reservoir.

So when I design the swimming pool wall, I need to take extra precaution at the horizontal loading at the corner and make sure the reinforcement is enough to tackle that. Noted.

Have you all ever encounter swimming pool design for the floor where they use beam and slab system? Yes, the swimming pool will be in the ground (lower ground of the building)

Thanks.
a novice in engineering who wants to learn and learn
What are the beams for? Generally, a uniform depth slab is used, similar in thickness to the walls.
Is your pool cast with forms or will it be sprayed concrete? I have generally found corner reinforcement requirements are equal to the horizontal reinforcement (it is a residential swimming pool right?) and you are not designing a reservoir or a water tight cellar. I have not seen any beams under your pool's floors unless the pool is founded on some pretty deep fill. The side walls of the pool will also be stiffer then any piratical beam you can provide.
Are those "beams" to encase an underdrain or pool drain system? We had elaborate underdrains in our reservoir so we could pinpoint exact locations of leaks.

Reply To This Thread
Posting in the Eng-Tips forums is a member-only feature.
Click Here to join Eng-Tips and talk with other members!

Resources
eBook: 5 Virtual Reality Applications in Manufacturing

Virtual reality (VR) has been around longer than you might think—more than half a century—but it’s only in the last few years that we’ve seen companies and researchers explore its practical applications for manufacturing.
Download Now
Case Study : Vision-Guided Collaborative Robots Deliver Fast ROI in Manufacturing

Indiana-based Task Force Tips, a manufacturer of firefighting equipment, needed to improve manufacturing productivity in the company’s CNC machining cells.
Download Now
White Paper: Four Considerations When Working with Sheet Metal

The use of sheet metal in manufacturing is well established, but the process to produce them can be quite complex. However, new tools can make the process easier.
Download Now
White Paper: Speed design time and streamline manufacturing with Solid Edge Sheet metal

Designing sheet metal parts can be a complex process. Though an end product is designed fully formed and assembled, sheet metal parts actually begin as flat plates.


    
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